Chapter 2403

The Ming Dynasty's current way of dealing with internal and external wars is not much different from its original history. Most of the measures taken are helpless and ineffective. Although Haihan's intervention effectively slowed down the pace of the Manchu Qing's southward invasion of the Ming Dynasty, it was still insufficient.

In order to change the general trend of history, Ming Dynasty, which was suffering from internal and external troubles, was still slowly sliding into the abyss of collapse.

Although ministers like Lu Xiangsheng wanted to serve the country, their influence was limited. There was no way to persuade the emperor and the court to change their strategies, put aside the airs of the Kingdom of Heaven and seek joint foreign aid to fight against the Manchus. What Lu Xiangsheng could do was probably just that.

He just tried to raise as much military expenditure as possible and tried to find Haihan to buy some arms to arm his troops.

Daming believed that joining forces with Haihan would harm its own interests. However, other companies were eager to do things that Daming did not want to do, and their attitude was much more proactive than Daming. Daming may not yet understand the benefits of cooperation with Haihan, but he has already done so.

Others have clearly calculated the pros and cons.

The one who took the initiative to find Haihan was not the Korean state that had just completed the transfer of power, but the Manchu and Qing Dynasties who had just taken a lot of wool from the Ming Dynasty. Before Chen Yixin returned to Shandong from Jinzhou, the Manchu and Qing Dynasty had already appointed Shang Kexi to come forward and negotiate with Chen Yixin.

Contact with Haihan in an attempt to start an armistice and peace talks with Haihan. Although Shang Qing, a close confidant sent by Shao Kexi to Jinzhou at that time, ran into trouble with Chen Yixin, he did not let Shang Kexi completely give up this direction of efforts. After the Qing army withdrew from the Ming Dynasty,

Afterwards, Shang Kexi once again asked Shang Qing to come to Jinzhou to ask for a meeting with General Haihan.

At this time, the person who was temporarily on duty in Jinzhou on behalf of Chen Yixin was Qian Tiandun. Regarding Shang Kexi's pursuit of peace talks, Chen Yixin had informed him earlier, so Qian Tiandun was not surprised by the visit of the Manchu envoy.

And he was also a little curious about what kind of conditions the Manchu Qing faction represented by Shang Kexi could offer.

Although Haihan has been at war with the Manchus for the past few years, and they fight several battles almost every year, the two countries still maintain a certain tacit understanding regarding the exchange of envoys during the truce. After all, the two sides will fight again and again.

The exchange of prisoners of war, bones, relics, etc. must also be completed through communication. However, it has never happened in the past few years that one of the parties has taken the initiative to negotiate an armistice and peace talks.

"When you came here last time, I think General Chen made our country's attitude very clear to you. Are you planning to bring up the old issues again this time?" Qian Tiandun asked expressionlessly.

Shang Qing responded: "General Qian, when General Chen met with the villain last time, he did express his unwillingness to engage in armistice peace talks with our country. However, my prince is grateful that successive years of war have brought too much harm to the people of Li, and he still hopes to continue

We will discuss with your country to resolve conflicts as soon as possible so that the people can live in peace."

Qian Tiandun sneered: "Does Shang Kexi really think so? But as far as I know, the 100,000 Qing troops who invaded the Ming Dynasty at the end of last year have just withdrawn from the Ming Dynasty. It is said that the Qing troops kidnapped several people during this invasion.

There are one hundred thousand people of the Ming Dynasty, Huang Taiji has no intention of letting the people of the Ming Dynasty live in peace!"

Shang Qing's psychological quality is very good, and he was not confused at all when he was criticized in person. He calmly responded to Qian Tiandun's accusation: "The people my prince refers to naturally refer to the people of our Qing Dynasty and your country. They do not

Including the people of the Ming Dynasty. Moreover, the Ming Dynasty has been experiencing constant civil strife in recent years, and the court has been unable to quell the peasant armies causing chaos in various places. These people who were taken away by our country may not be able to live in peace even if they stay in the Ming Dynasty. After they arrive in Liaodong,

On the contrary, we can live a peaceful life without war."

"Come on, we all know what the situation was like in the Manchu and Qing Dynasties, and how the Han people in the Ming Dynasty were treated in the Qing Dynasty. The Han people who were captured in the war would only become slaves when they went to the Manchu and Qing Dynasties, and were driven and exploited by the Manchus.

, can this be considered a peaceful life?" Qian Tiandun sneered at Shang Qing's remarks and immediately debunked them.

Seeing Qian Tiandun's unkind tone, Shang Qing quickly defended: "General Qian is talking about the old almanac. The emperor of our country has already stipulated that each manor can only retain a maximum of eight Han Aha, and the rest of the Han people are classified as

The same is true for ordinary households and the Han people captured in the war. Moreover, our country also allocated a large amount of land to the Han people in Liaodong for them to engage in agricultural cultivation. Your country has sent troops to the coast of Liaodong many times, so you must be aware of this. In addition, the emperor is also willing

Han people were appointed as officials, and now there are many important Han people serving in the court, and there is no barrier between Manchu and Han."

Qian Tiandun said: "The important officials of the Han people you are talking about are Fan Wencheng, Ning Wanwo, and Prince Sanshun including your prince? Yes, these people did gain power and status in the Manchu Qing Dynasty.

, but the reason why they are treated like this is because they betrayed the Ming Dynasty!"

Shang Qing continued to argue: "Good birds choose trees to roost, and good ministers choose their masters to serve. This is a wise move. Besides, this kind of thing is not unique to our country. As far as I know, many officials in your country also

They all came from the Ming Dynasty, but now they are loyal to Haihan, is there anything wrong with this?"

Qian Tiandun was at a loss for words for a moment. He didn't expect that this envoy was so eloquent and so good at arguing. But Shang Qing's words did make some sense. There were many reasons for Haihan's rapid rise.

Part of it was that a large number of resources, including talents, were absorbed from the Ming Dynasty. Indeed, there were many officials from the Ming Dynasty who changed their positions and joined Haihan. However, Haihan's hostility to the Ming Dynasty was not as strong as that of the Manchu Qing Dynasty, so these personnel recruited by Haihan had no influence on the Ming Dynasty.

Naturally, the harm caused cannot be compared to the likes of Shang Kexi.

But from Qian Tiandun's point of view, he has always rejected the possibility of peace talks with the Manchus. Regardless of whether he can argue with the Qing Dynasty, he will not list peace talks as the first option. And what Shang Qing listed

These fallacies made him feel even more unhappy.

Shang Qing observed the situation carefully, but did not continue the topic to embarrass Qian Tiandun. Instead, he said: "Actually, in addition to having ministers from the Ming Dynasty serve, our country and your country also have many similarities. For example, they are both from recent times.

It took only a few years for them to expand their national power and compete with the Ming Dynasty. They all have close contacts with North Korea, and they all advocate the use of force to open up borders... If we go into detail, the two countries will definitely find more things in common."

Qian Tiandun responded in a deep voice: "There are similarities, but no common interests. I think your country should have seen clearly that our two countries have irreconcilable conflicts of interest in the Liaodong region, and war is inevitable unless it is

One of us is willing to bow our head and admit defeat and give up some of our interests in exchange for peaceful coexistence."

If you want peace talks, you must first admit defeat. This is the precondition set by Qian Tiandun for peace talks. But this is not a condition that the Manchus can accept calmly.

Shang Qingdao: "Actually, our country is very sincere in making some concessions in exchange for peace, but the conditions put forward by General Chen on behalf of your country last time were too outrageous. If General Qian thinks that our two countries can achieve peace through negotiation, then he might as well

We calmly review our respective interests in the Liaodong region and see which parts of the conflict can be resolved through negotiation."

When Chen Yixin met Shang Qing last time, he opened his mouth and made an extremely exaggerated condition, that is, requiring the Qing army to retreat to the north of the line connecting the Daliao River and the Yalu River estuary, and cede control of the entire Liaodong Peninsula to Haihan

It was naturally impossible for the Manchus to agree to such conditions, but Shang Kexi did not want to give up the possibility of peace talks, so after careful planning, he sent Shang Qing to Jinzhou as a lobbyist.

Shang Qing thought that changing the person in charge of Jinzhou at this time might help the negotiations, but he did not expect that Qian Tiandun's position was almost the same as Chen Yixin's, and his antipathy towards the Manchus was even more firm.

It is not easy to get Qian Tiandun to relent.

If Qian Tiandun hadn't been idle, he wouldn't have spent so much time arguing with Shang Qing. Hearing this, he said: "Then tell me what kind of conditions your prince has offered. If you want our country to withdraw,

Jinzhou, or draw a clear line with Ming Dynasty, then there is no need to say it."

When Shang Qing came to discuss with Chen Yixin last time, he was turned away by the outrageous conditions offered by Chen Yixin before he even got to the point of revealing his conditions. But this time Qian Tiandun was actually willing to listen to him.

Conditions, this is quite a progress.

Shang Qing thought about it for a while, and then said: "My prince also knows that your country has many interests in the Ming Dynasty, and it is probably impossible to draw a clear line with the Ming Dynasty. As for letting the Haihan army withdraw from Jinzhou, my prince does not expect it.

You can get results that you can't get on the battlefield through negotiation, so the general doesn't have to worry about our country proposing such unreasonable conditions."

Qian Tiandun heard what he said was quite reasonable, so he nodded slightly and motioned for him to continue.

Shang Qing continued: "As the general said just now, there are two main reasons for the conflict between our Qing Dynasty and your country. One is that both of us want to compete for control of the Liaodong region; the other is that the conflict between our two countries

There is a lack of common interests. If we can solve these two problems together, will it be possible to live in peace?"

Qian Tiandun knew as soon as he heard that the other party was well prepared this time. It was obvious that he had carefully analyzed the situation of the two countries based on various intelligences before he could summarize these two key points. Although Haihan's hostile attitude towards the Manchus was

There are some reasons that come from the inherent ideology of the time travellers, but in the final analysis the main reason is due to conflicts of interest.

The development of Haihan requires a relatively stable sales market and resource supply area, and the Qing army's continuous incursions into the Ming Dynasty will seriously damage the trade environment needed by Haihan, which will inevitably cause a conflict of interest with Haihan. As for the Qing army's invasion of the northern part of the Ming Dynasty

The invasion of Korea and North Korea also hindered Haihan's long-term strategy in Northeast Asia to some extent. Since these actions were already in a place where Haihan could project troops on a large scale, he naturally would not stand by and watch the actions of the Qing army.

.

Since the beginning of contact between the Haihan and the Manchu Qing Dynasties, they had only hostile relations and no trade exchanges. Naturally, there was no common interest at all. If the two countries were absorbing resources from the Ming Dynasty, they were even competitors.

It's just that Haihan's methods are relatively mild.

Qian Tiandun asked calmly: "How does your country plan to solve these two problems?"

Shang Qing said: "The first step is to stop the war in Jinzhou, and then start formal peace talks. The location can be in Jinzhou or the capital of our country."

Shang Qing knew that he spoke softly, and if he really wanted to start formal negotiations with the Haihan people, it would probably not be his turn to come forward. So he did not immediately offer conditions to Qian Tiandun, and observed Qian Tiandun's reaction while talking.

Qian Tiandun did not respond, seeming to be waiting for him to continue. But as long as Qian Tiandun did not interrupt, Shang Qing was already grateful and quickly continued: "To resolve the conflict between the two countries, General Qian and my family are needed

A big man like the prince is discussing this, and I don’t dare to say too much at this time. However, I do have some ideas to create common interests. Your country is good at cross-sea trade, and the area under our rule, the Qing Dynasty, is rich in products. If it can be sold by sea

If you go to the south, you will definitely gain a lot. If your country can consider cooperation in this area, then the two countries can completely turn Jinzhou into a big trading city. Relying on the port here, they can exchange goods between the north and the south. This will have common interests.

?”

After hearing this, Qian Tiandun couldn't help but sigh: "It seems that you have an expert's guidance behind you!"

Shang Qing was not sure whether Qian Tiandun's words were praise or criticism, so he could only say a few polite words. His idea was indeed not something he said casually. This was the characteristic of the Han think tanks in the Manchu and Qing Dynasty who specifically targeted Haihan.

The strategies formulated.

Qian Tiandun said: "You may think that Haihan people will accept any business as long as it is profitable. But in fact, this is not the case. The interests we consider are not only financial income, but also many other factors."

Shang Qing said: "General, there is no need to speak too harshly early. Although our Qing Dynasty is located in a bitter cold land in the north, its treasury is full and there are many goods that we want to trade with your country. If our two countries can establish trade relations, we will definitely

It will be of great benefit to each other. Your country and the impoverished North Korea can still cooperate. The situation of the Qing Dynasty is hundreds of times better than that of North Korea. Your country can send people to our country for on-site inspection before making a decision.

"

Shang Qing's words are not bragging. The abundant products in Liaodong can almost cover all the needs of Haihan at this stage. Although the Manchu and Qing Dynasties are backward in social productivity, they have plundered a lot of wealth from neighboring countries over the years.

There are a lot of money, and there is nowhere to spend it, which will also give Haihan's various industrial products great sales potential.

Of course, no need for Shang Qingming to say, Qian Tiandun can also think of what Haihan products the Manchus are most interested in. The Qing army has been fighting with the Haihan army for several years, and now they are no longer willing to fight against the Haihan army on the frontal battlefield.

, the reason is that they are wary of the various types of powerful weapons equipped by the Haihan army. If the two countries establish trade relations, the first thing the Manchu Qing will buy will probably be the standard weapons produced by Haihan.
Chapter completed!